Why Big Marketers Are Dying Off, And Little Guys Can Win

An idea hit me. Admittedly, its gone through my mind before. It is super-basic, yet I see so many people online just forgetting.

See, in this whole blogger market, I’m not exactly the biggest fish in the pond. My list size is respectable, but not nearly as big as some of the folks like Darren or Brian (from CopyBlogger). My traffic is nothing to complain about, but people like Pat Flynn are far surpassing me.

But, generally, I’ve got a pretty tight-knit bunch of readers. :) Every time that little voice in my head wonders if I’m doing enough, I get people who tell me they open my emails religiously.

Side note: Have I told you guys how much appreciate you lately? :)

Plus, I do OK in the promotional department, too. This year, I came in #3 affiliate for one of Ryan Lee’s launches and ended up out in Las Vegas with him and several others. I was #1 affiliate for Corbett’s Traffic School launch, beating out several other bloggers you guys would know and love.

The other day, Ryan Lee mentioned me on his blog as one of the marketers who “get it”. (Much appreciated, Ryan.)

So, what is it that I “get”?

Honestly, I don’t think its just that I “get” something… I think its just that I haven’t forgotten.

Our readers are PEOPLE. Real people, not just numbers on an email list. And, they have opinions, mindsets, things to say. Hell, especially bloggers, you guys have things to say. ;)

Which brings me to my primary point…

TWO-WAY COMMUNICATION.

That’s it.

As a blogger and a marketer, it is all too easy to get into a 1-way flow. A top-down thing where I’m just lecturing you guys and you listen. Online, it is too easy to only gauge things like email open rate… or when I’m selling something, the number of orders.

But, those things are impersonal. They’re good – don’t get me wrong. You want to watch the numbers. But, still, it is impersonal.

We’re not built, as human beings, to enjoy 1-way flows. That’s why we got sleepy in college classes when the professor was talking to the chalkboard. He wasn’t talking TO us. He was lecturing. He was thinking about himself, and we’re supposed to feel honored to be listening. Yeah, bullshit.

As Ryan pointed out on his blog, some of the big marketers out there are losing their shirts now. They burned their list, trying to shake their subscribers upside down for every dime they had. They offered no real value, just sales offers. They rarely, if ever, actually interacted with their subscribers. Many of the old big-timers are now exiting the niche and you don’t see them launching anymore.

THEY DIDN’T LISTEN. THEY DIDN’T ENGAGE IN A TWO-WAY CONVERSATION.

They just kept pushing $2K products. And it worked… until it didn’t work anymore. People grew weary.

So, how can you promote a two-way conversation with your readers and subscribers?

  1. Reply to their emails.
  2. Ask them to email. Do you ever ask people on your list to email you back by replying?
  3. Reply to their comments on your blog.
  4. Ask them questions, and invite them to reply. You can learn a LOT about your market by asking simple questions, and it keeps you “on the pulse” of your market.
  5. Move beyond your blog. Do videos. Do webinars. Let your subscribers interact with you as a human being.
  6. Be transparent. You don’t have to share every little thing (obviously), but just be a real person. You’re not perfect, so don’t try to act like you are.
  7. Keep it personal. Address them by name. Use email surveys rather than solely form-based ones.

I could go on, but you get the point.

This stuff creates loyal fans.

Not because you’re so damn awesome. It is ONLY because…

You listened. You acknowledged them. And you helped.

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  • http://www.WishListMember.com Stu McLaren

    Great post David.

    It always surprises me how “common sense” isn’t so “common” when it comes to building relationships with ones readers.

    I think as long as people stay focused on your comment “our readers are PEOPLE” we’ll be fine.

  • Tina

    Spot on David. Thanks!

  • http://davidrisley.com David Risley

    Yeah, pretty much. :-)

  • Shane

    Now this is one damn fine post Dave and it’s also why I respect you so much….because you haven’t forgotten about loyalty.

    The other issue beyond loyalty is a lack of drive to bring in new readers and a lack of quality with their products.

    Solve immediate needs we have, treat people like real humans, be a real human, tell real stories from experience and you get loyalty :)

  • http://iwebdigest.com Ethan S

    This is one of the best things you can do. It can also be used to understand the objections your leads are having to buying your products. You can then talk to each lead individually and address their objections specifically.

    Of course, after you grow to a certain size, it becomes very hard to personally interact with everyone, which I suppose, is when you can have a VIP or members only area where people pay for direct access to you like you have discussed.

  • http://onlineguitarcoaching.com Will Kriski

    At the end of the day you need to be selling something people are motivated to buy. I ask questions, reply to all tweets, FB comments, blog comments, forum posts, youtube comments and still barely sell any guitar lesson products. Youtube views are 1.5 million with over 4 thousand subscribers and 4300 fans on FB – these stats are essentially meaningless based on actual results.

  • Kev Kaye

    I’m surprised you aren’t happy with your results considering those numbers. I’d be interested to see how you have things structured.  It might be that you need to make a few simple adjustments to turn up the notch on sales. 

  • http://sybersquad.com Christopher Knopick

    Communication is always good but some of this can depend on your niche.  My niche, which is kind of a combination of lifestyle/self-help/tech has tech people who a notoriously non-responsive and lifestyle/self-help which (I believe) are less so.  It’s good to reach out, hopefully they will reach back.

  • http://internetbusinesselevation.com Kev Kaye

    I agree with you David, acknowledging that we’re humans, marketing to humans is a major shift in the way things need to be done online.  Proof of that change is in what Frank Kern used to teach.  He would openly recommend you “hide” behind your email address, be inaccessible and interact with customers AS LITTLE as possible.  He’s since changed his stance on that, but things are a bit different now huh?

  • http://davidrisley.com David Risley

    I see the same over on PCMech, but you CAN get them to respond in ways other than blog comments. Try asking them to reply to emails to your list. Show them HOW to comment on the blog. 

    People are people. I’m not so sure one can write off a niche by saying those people don’t talk. They do… its just a matter of motivation.

  • http://dool.in Dave Doolin

    I saved a bunch of those emails after the last several years, for my electronic swipe file.

    Eben is pitching again. His stuff is pretty good, but with the perspective of experience I can now say I’m not after the same customers he is marketing to.  

    These guys all go after starving crowds, offering hamburgers. Great analogy, and Halbert (or whoever) was a genius for that.

    But it’s a Major League “home run” strategy, and I have enough trouble consistently making base hits in the JV. So I’m putting more time into the batting cage, as it were.

  • http://davidrisley.com David Risley

    Yeah, you don’t have a numbers issue, you have a marketing issue. What you’re offering and/or the way it is being pitched just isn’t connecting. My guess is that you’ve not properly identified what it is they really want. You also have some design/conversion issues you could rework on your site.

  • http://davidrisley.com David Risley

    Absolutely.

    And, yeah, it does get harder as the audience grows. But, there are ways. :-)

  • http://davidrisley.com David Risley

    Thanks, Shane. :-)

  • http://davidrisley.com David Risley

    Good idea to save the emails. Always good to watch them and learn… rather than reacting harshly to being pitched. If you want to make money, you should ENJOY being marketed to so you can see how they do it.

  • http://davidrisley.com David Risley

    Frank is a brilliant guy, but also a bit of a poster-child for the big-time marketer whose now moving onto other things. Frank doesn’t really do much these days except for high-end consulting and behind-the-scenes stuff, from what I gather.

    But, Frank is really good at understanding a market. So, I’m quite sure he sees what’s happening here.

  • http://www.fix-it-blog.com Monte

    Chrisopher, you hit the proverbial nail on the head about the tech niches.For the blog I always ask a question or two in the article and sometimes at the end, response rate is near zero…

    In my Newsletter and the small publications I give away every month I also ask for feed back, heck the two surveys I have done since I started giving away a monthly ‘Guide’ (smaller and less intense than a checklist to fix a given computer issue) the open rate was the highest I have ever had at 87% but I only got a 3% response rate.

    Yup, them tech people are very closed mouthed, I know they have opinions but I think they are gun shy from being trolled in some forums.

    Makes it hard to do a 2-way commnication but I ain’t givin’ up!
    :)

  • http://internetbusinesselevation.com Kev Kaye

    I agree, Frank is great at what he does. I know he is or was doing a lot for Tony Robbins these days. From what Robbins has been putting out marketing wise, I see a touch of Kern magic in there.  

  • Luca Lazzari

    Great post: I find it especially encouraging for us, the beginners. This online universe is really intimidating, but knowing that even “little guys” can have some chance is so gooooood….
    In particular after watching a video, some days ago, in which seems that Google will pay attention only to the big corporations in the near future, intentionally strangling all the dwarves entrepreneurs!

  • http://BlogWithSuccess.com WordPress Tutorials

    Hey David,

    You are so right and it is so easy to get into the I speak you listen mind frame. Especially in the “make money” type of niches because it is only a passion for people for a short amount of time.

    It seems to be easier for me to stay in a two way conversation in other niches were there is a passion that does not fizzle out so quickly.

    But man… grat post

  • http://twitter.com/mackmcclendon Harrison McClendon

    You are always personal and will tell it like it is. You have a good heart and everyone I send your post to respects what you put out there. This is a great post and the bottom line really says to me is to exhibit love ( I know I used the “L” word) and not to be stuck on yourself. Thanks again David.

  • http://www.theskooloflife.com Srinivas Rao

    David, 

    This is really spot on stuff. I think the nice thing about seeing somebody like you is that we know we can achieve great success without massive numbers. Like you said you’ve got an audience that is really engaged. Part of why I don’t comment on some of the really big blogs is because nobody responds and it’s impossible to build a relationship with the authors. One thing I did recently was create a separate email list specifically for people who bought my ebook, so I can communicate with them on a regular basis. While only 6 people signed up for it out of my 20+ customers, I know that I can still engage with that group and learn a ton from interacting with them. 

  • Susanfrench

    David,

     I knew there was a reason I was in love with you (I  hope you’re blushing).  What a great post!  You put your finger precisely on the pulse of why I 1) always read your posts, 2) I have learned to trust what you say, 3) that you listen and reply and 4) always feel myself to be in a dialogue.
    I so very much appreciate that you share of yourself so openly while at the same time managing to to make your blog about us.

    Yes I am one of your tightly knit loyalists.

    Susan French

  • Djones

    I am a newbie to this whole Internet Marketing “Game” however been on the Internet since 1998.  Have been reseaching Click-Bank and saw Nada for products to promote.  I too have been collecting all the big marketer stuff because some of it is very good…. however as everyone states “The game is changing”

    Mark Marzinzik

  • http://www.melhardman.com Mel

    Very nice post, David.  Reminded me that I, too, need to make more effort towards 2-way communication with my list.

  • http://www.chuckbartok.com Chuck Bartok

    It has been said elsewhere in the comment section, your thoughts and expression are valuable to any and all Marketers and Salesmen.
    I was appalled coming on line at the methods espoused and even more so attending some of the High Level Events.
    There was and still is MONEY to be made using the non-personal tactics, but these popor peopel have to keep grinding out new crap.
    Our businesses and those of my clients have grown over past 55 years through the Philosophy of People buy form People, and always Deliver more REAL value than ever received in Cash Value.
    It has has worked off-line for Centuries and is really working On-line.
    On-Line clients are enjoying steady growth and huge retention

  • http://twitter.com/christiantjr Christian

    The thing about high touch marketing is that having a big list is really kind of irrelevant. You’re right this is kind of common sense, but it’s a great message because it seems to be something that never becomes a popular concept. 

    You simply don’t need a big list. You just really do not need half a million visitors to your blog every month to make great living. When you really get to know people, you can create offers which truly hit home and are almost impossible to ignore. 

    Importantly, the $2k product launch model you mention has kind of been on the way out for a long time. Wouldn’t you agree? The fact is that kind of business model is just old school, impersonal push marketing. Those offers are sent out to hundreds of thousands of people and just don’t convert well.

  • Anonymous

    Agreed, D-man. 

  • Anonymous

    Facing this obstacle right now. I suppose it isn’t a bad obstacle to be having, though. :)  

  • Anonymous

    Wait, you made a comment and didn’t mention surfing?! What is the world coming to?! ;)  Just playing, Srini. I’m a big proponent of marketing to existing customers in a way that makes them feel special – they’re the hottest leads you’re ever going to get. When I created the sign up for Clients + Cash, I asked buyers to tell me what their favorite drink is. You bet your ass they’ll be getting something in the mail from me soon. :)  

  • http://sometimesithink-krissy.blogspot.com krissy knox

    @David, I always open your emails/posts when I have time.  There are many emails I don’t open. They are from marketers who have nothing to offer, and are just begging me. I am not saying it is wrong to market, of course not. Market just means sell — and there is absolutely nothing wrong with this!  But you have so much to offer us besides pushing an offer  in our face.  You have truly helped me through the past year – through your blogs, through ustream, through youtube, your blogs, your courses, answering questions, making yourself available, etc.  I know time is money, but you do what you can, balancing helping and making money.  Those who are just in it for the money — who just want to “make millions but not work” — will soon be gone.  Good ones like you will stick around and make money. God bless you.

    krissy knox
    follow on twitter http://twitter.com/krissyknox please note my twitter name has changed, thank you!

  • http://marketingartfully.com Tara Jacobsen

    Gotta say, I think you “get it”! Met you at a Tweetup YEARS ago in Tampa Florida and have watched and read for YEARS! Your content is great, your passion is evident and you let your humanity show. Thank you.

  • http://sybersquad.com Christopher Knopick

    Monte,
    Thanks for the support but I don’t want my opinion on tech blog readers to become an excuse for inaction (for me anyway).  David makes some good points in his previous reply to me and I agree that it does work, it just takes time and effort in helping people personally to engender that interactivity.

    I noticed in looking at your website that comments are turned off in many of your posts. Any thoughts on why?

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002206468089 HighTech Mechanic

    Hey David, Excellent post. I love reading your stuff and I always agree with what you have to say. When it comes to online marketing it is no different than face to face marketing, you have to build a relationship with the people you are trying to market too.
    Keep up the positive good work my man, you are my best mentor in online social marketing.

    Tom Johnson

  • http://sybersquad.com Christopher Knopick

    Gotta build the list. I feel like the guy from the Dunkin Donuts commercials “Have to make the doughnuts”. I understand and agree with your point. I have to try to be less cynical. Nice webinar last night by the way. If anyone here wants some great info and business tips join David’s Inner Circle, definitely worth it. 

  • http://davidrisley.com David Risley

    Thanks, Tara. :-)

  • http://davidrisley.com David Risley

    That’s “Big D”. ;-)

  • http://davidrisley.com David Risley

    Yeah, you can really do the same with your general list, too. Doesn’t have to be just for customers.

  • http://davidrisley.com David Risley

    That’s certainly another way to put it, yeah. :-)

  • http://davidrisley.com David Risley

    Thanks so much, Tom. :-)

  • Anonymous

    Sorry – that name is reserved for my pimp. ;)  hahahahaha. 
     

  • http://davidrisley.com David Risley

    Thanks. :-)

    Actually, I think some of those guys who make millions work their asses off. I don’t take anything from them on that front. I just think they forget to keep it real sometimes. Once they get a taste for those millions, its like crack… and all they do is chase more of it and forget that sometimes just putting out good stuff without a price tag is a good thing to do.

  • http://davidrisley.com David Risley

    Well, I don’t think the product launch is going anywhere. The whole PLF thing is based on solid marketing which has been around long before the Internet. That said, I think people were playing copycat and getting insanely uncreative about it. 

    And besides the method of launch, yes… I do think the $2K price point is going the way of the dodo. At least in internet marketing.

  • http://davidrisley.com David Risley

    Thanks, Susan. :-) Wonder if my wife will see this. ;-)

  • http://davidrisley.com David Risley

    Thanks for the plug. :-)

  • http://davidrisley.com David Risley

    Monte, what I’ve found reliably gets them going on PCMech is to hit on a touchy topic for techies. Mac versus PC is always a good one. :-) Get them to give opinions on “versus” topics… people love that stuff.

  • http://davidrisley.com David Risley

    Just concentrate on setting up communication channels with particular purposes, so not everything goes to you. A support desk helps. Contact forms with particular purposes, diverted to other people. Not ALL correspondance has to be answered by you.

  • http://androidphotoart.com Keith Bloemendaal

    “They just kept pushing $2K products. And it worked… until it didn’t work anymore.” 

    As you know Dave, I reply to your emails sometimes, and over the years (since 2008 I think) your list is one of the few I have stuck with…. because your no bullsh*t approach and willingness to share knowledge exceeds what other authorities in this market give me. Simple.

  • http://davidrisley.com David Risley

    Thanks, Keith. :-)

  • Anonymous

    Just shared on Facebook. Great article! Made me feel so much better about my piddly list!